Three days of being wound tight

Last weekend I was made angry. And it lasted for quite a few days. Every interaction I had was somewhat coloured by this anger. It began with a thread being pulled. A really light-hearted and inoffensive thread.

First I will cut and paste my emails with skit.

skit:

Has Willem responded to your ezmail, by the way? He's starting to
annoy me even more in the thread. Grr.

Me:

Ah, even though I had read this before, reading it again brought a firey hot coal to my stomach.

I have a Word document titled "hatemail" (.rtf) which has two further ezmails as they were too long to read properly in the small ezmail box.

So I sent an ezmail. Willem replied. I replied. Willem replied. I replied. Willem replied. I am not replying.

He is very sure of himself. I will give him that.

I have been so wound up by him lately. So very wound up. To summarise:
He does not agree that he should notify people when they have a thread yanked (or give them the chance to change whatever causes the problem).
He found our reactions to a thread going missing as amusing in the sense that he enjoyed the confusion.
He does not agree to explain the rules. (I asked him to before Sophie did).

I think that is everything of note...

I just hate the way he went "no" to my requests. Which were simple! My requests were that he would not delete whole threads based on one small thing, that he would notify people when "rules" were breached and that he would clarify what the "rules" were.

I also accused him of breaking the "have a sense of humour" rule but didn't press that one. I also didn't press the matter of what he considered to be an insult. It is of course something I don't understand but as I have said with the whole God/bob thing, I make concessions even if I don't get it.

Anyway. I thought I'd blog this as I can't post about it on the Board and it does bug me. I see his behaviour as a strangely empowered case of trolling. He adds nothing to our community and came in and destroyed a little part of it. He got amusement from this (he did admit this- I want to make it clear that part of what annoys me is that he seems to get off on the power trip).

Yeah, I am incredibly worked up. And he wouldn't listen to me in the slightest. I was getting to the point where I was willing to do anything, screw the consequences. But his final email was not even a reply to mine. He just said that I was illogical and not to email him again. And also made some reference to a long term problem with him which is ludicrous.  So, I have not replied because he asked me not to. And it is so hopeless. And anyway- he is right in one thing. He doesn't get off on the power trip often enough for it to be a problem.

I ask myself why I care so much.

I know why.

It is because of my ego that calls the Board mine when I have no right to do so.

Mine in a communal way. Ours. But "mine" sounds more fiercely protective. "Mine" like... pika was mine. Or maybe my family is mine. My friends are mine. My school is mine.




skit

Yes, my general reaction to all of that is a heartfelt grr.

I think…I understand him. And to some extent I see why he thinks he
has a right to behave exactly as he does. He did set the board up
originally and probably feels to some extent responsible for our
behaviour on it. Responsible in the sense of an adult restraining a
lot of exuberant children. Responsible like the teacher on the train
who got more worked up by the radio 2 jingle than by the constant
swearing. He looks on himself as the arbiter of our good behaviour,
restraining our excesses when he knows better than us.

And there's the reason _I'm_ annoyed. But I can, and do, see why he
behaves like that. I don't think he's going to listen to our
grievances with that behaviour, because that's exactly the point – the
initial assumption is that he is the adult, with experience, who knows
better how we should behave. He will continue to do that no matter how
much we resent it, because it's how he sees us. We appear silly
children, stamping our feet, rather than equal members of a community.
And yes, that's wrong. I agree we let him by signing onto his board in
the first place, but I don't like it.

> I also accused him of breaking the "have a sense of humour" rule but didn't
> press that one. I also didn't press the matter of what he considered to be
> an insult. It is of course something I don't understand but as I have said
> with the whole God/bob thing, I make concessions even if I don't get it.

I don't even think it's that things insult him. He never seems
particularly insulted. I think he thinks it's just unsociable
behaviour and he's going to keep it in check. It's more what he thinks
may offend other people than anything personal on his behalf. That
almost annoys me more.

> Anyway. I thought I'd blog this as I can't post about it on the Board and it
> does bug me.

If you want to vent, by all means blog it. But I think it's getting to
the time where we need a board discussion about what to do (as yuku is
coming…(the goose is getting fat?)). I think the best idea might be to
set up on our own entirely…and we don't even need to make it obvious
that we don't like his control, because it's perfectly rational that
the responsibility of moderating the board should belong to those
people who get the most out of the board and are most likely to be
around when things need moderating. Because I worry that we risk
losing people. I am sure, despite his politeness, Snail is feeling
pretty nonplussed and a bit annoyed right now, and the fact that none
of the oldies have seemed nonplussed with him (because we know Willem
of old) is probably making him feel even weirder about the board as a
whole. Same goes for other newbies, and for lurkers – would you want
to join a board if you saw this going on?

So yeah, I think it's time for the debate, even leaving out personal
anger. But putting it on your blog might make other people think a bit
harder about it too, which would be a good thing (at the moment I am
channelling jes I think and fearing an avalanche of 'nicely nicely'
style posting which would argue stay with the board and yuku so as not
to lose or offend anyone at all).



(Now)

So, essentially this blog post is like a mass email to Hobblings because what I said to skit, the comments I invited, is for all Hobblings. You can stop reading here. Or continue to see the original ezmails.

By the way, when I think of Willem I think of the incident in the chatroom. Does anyone else remember it? In those days it was not run by ezboard and so we could choose whatever name we wanted. Willem decided to go in and pretend to be someone who had been recently trolling (arguably) the Board. I have never worked out why that is funny.





Me (written when on owl shift at 3am)

You need to accept that this is a polite and civil board, Willem. That we respect each other. That even long-term Board members respect relatively new Board members, especially those that contribute as much intelligent thought as Snail. And yanking his thread because you don't get the joke does not show him the respect he deserves. I know that you are the terrible ezop and have never claimed to have anything but a tyrannical rule but you are enforcing rules without explaining what they are first and I don't like that. Just say it: no mention of God, hell, the devil, demons, spirits... Then at least we can comply without mistakenly believing this to be a Board of good humour.


And the reply:

Keppet
you seem to be a bit pissed off? you also seem to assume things without asking. including what i disapprove of or no.

I did get his joke but did not like it.
respect: you seem to have a different definition then I.
Snail said something which I find not in agreement with the rules under announcement. And moreover I dislike on certain grounds which I feel are in line with the already mentioned rules..

your statement that there has not been an explanation is completely incorrect.
so there is nothing to "not like"
if you go to look under announcements you will find the rules.
It gets even better when talking about humor: i find it very funny what happened. don't take removing a post too seriously.
It might be I have a somewhat different humor then most people.

regards
Willem
PS I dont see the point of your opening sentence: i dont need to do anything which I already do,
the fact that ripping away a post happens very seldomly tells me enough..


Me (I forget when I wrote this... towards the end of the Owl shift?)

Nowhere in the rules does it say anything about not using the existance of God in a humorous way. I think you need to either clarify the rules or find a new way of dealing with them. Obviously clarifying the rules is the harder of the two.

Dealing with the rules obviously depends on how great the infringement. When a post is obviously inflammatory, no one would cry out if it was pulled. However in this case no one apart from you (in a strange case of not getting the joke- the thread was about a Tin Tin film!) took offence and the reaction was overblown. It was disrespectful to Snail who is a fantastic addition to the Board. It said that his opinion was not worthy of a thread. What could have been done had you found it within yourself to spend more than a second hitting the delete key, would be to post and say that you didn't like the joke and would prefer it if the joke didn't appear again. What is the point of pulling the thread once you have seen it and taken offence? Petty revenge it feels like to me. After all, the insult to your sensibilities has already occured and deleting the thread will not erase that. In my opinion, a mere comment of how you wish people to behave is what was necessary. Then people can change their behaviour out of respect to you which they would on this Board. If Snail had not raised the issue, would you even have had the chance to explain what your boundaries were? How would anyone know how not to offend you in the future? It was utterly unproductive until Snail asked why.

The middle path to dealing with this between yanking the thread and posting your opinion would have been to edit the thread title. A small thing that says that Snail is allowed to talk about the Tin Tin film, is allowed to voice his opinion. Just as long as he frames it correctly. This would have been an odd thing to do for reasons I stated above (that the offence had already been dealt to you so why try to turn the clocks back) but at least one that was respectful of Snail's right to discuss a film.

>you seem to be a bit pissed off?

Yes. This Board means a lot to me. Suddenly having a thread yanked without explanation is like a thief coming into my home. Okay, maybe my landlord coming into my home and taking something. It does cause offence. It says that this is not a community. But it is. The Board is a community. And we can police ourselves if need be. We can set our own limits as a community. We are small enough that this works. And it means a lot to me that it works.

> you also seem to assume things without asking. including what i disapprove of or no.

Ah I see. You are a huge fan of the upcoming Tin Tin film and could not stand any criticism? No, I think I understood what it was you disapproved of.


>I did get his joke but did not like it.

There are many jokes on this Board that I do not like. I tell people and also post jokes that I do like. I believe that to be the best way to show people respect.

>respect: you seem to have a different definition then I.

How did your actions show Snail respect? Maybe you are right and you do have a definition that allows you to do such actions in a community.

>Snail said something which I find not in agreement with the rules under announcement.

As I said, perhaps you need to revise them then though that is not the simplest way to proceed.

>your statement that there has not been an explanation is completely incorrect.

I am sorry if you contacted Snail about the removal and I am jumping to conclusions (based on his bafflement) that you did not. If this was the case, you should say.

>It gets even better when talking about humor: i find it very funny what happened. don't take removing a post too seriously.

Well I do for reasons stated. Would you be willing to think over your stance on this bearing that in mind?

>It might be I have a somewhat different humor then most people.

That is true. I do not deny that you have one but if you find pulling a thread funny then I have to appeal to your sense of wisdom rather than humour.

>the fact that ripping away a post happens very seldomly tells me enough..

I don't see why it happened at all.

I don't mind if you don't reply. I hope that you just think about my suggestions and opinions and come to some place that shows a willingness to work with people rather than over them.

With much love for the community you created,
kepp.


Willem

Keppet
first: no need to get cynical against me.
I maintain a different standpoint
I cant appreciate people using Gods name in a disrespectfull way.

I could have contacted snail before hand but i choose not to do
- a short fuse maybe? I felt it an inappropriate title and i dont want to discuss that if I am short in time.
It is my interpretation of the rules.
if you look to the total number of posts etc and the number of times I removed a post without any warning (which is mentioned in the rules btw) i feel you overdo it.
you seem not to get what I said: i did not say i found it funny to pull the message but what happened thereafter.
pecooper seemed the only one who had a clue what really happened.
you can cry about a single incident like this but then i ask you: why did snail apologize? you cant tell me he did not mean it.

in conclusion: it is a matter of interpretation. can you try to agree to disagree ?

there is no need to tell me what i should have done or should change in the rules
I feel they are reasonable and worked well in all those years and 10thousands of posts.
.
regards
Willem


Me

>first: no need to get cynical against me.

In fact, I feel I was being optimistic. I thought that I could help you but I see my words have fallen on deaf ears. Why do you keep the rules a secret? Why, when Sophie asks for clarification, do you not come clean? Does it amuse you to have a set of rules no one knows about?

>I cant appreciate people using Gods name in a disrespectfull way.

Then say it! And also clarify that disrespectful includes humorous.

>I could have contacted snail before hand but i choose not to do
>- a short fuse maybe?

Do you admit then that that is what you should have done? Do you agree to a more gentlemanly way of acting in the future? I cannot tell from what you say.

> I felt it an inappropriate title and i dont want to discuss that if I am short in time.

And there I think we come back to disrespect. Snail is not worth your time, obviously. I feel that he should be. If you respected him, he would be. We all would be.

>It is my interpretation of the rules.

I do not argue that about your right to set the rules. I may argue what they are but I cannot put any power behind that, so what is the point? I argue the way you enforce them.

>pecooper seemed the only one who had a clue what really happened.

I knew. Possibly others did too but so few on the Board know who you are and think only Myo has that power so it is easy to see why most were confused.

So you found the confusion amusing? You don't think that the confusion is suggesting that your rules are not clear enough? we are back to this amusement you have in knowing rules others do not.

>you can cry about a single incident like this but then i ask you: why did snail apologize?

Because he is a good man who shows others respect.

Besides, is this the issue? No, the issue is the way the thread was pulled with no explanation. Not what Snail said.

>in conclusion: it is a matter of interpretation. can you try to agree to disagree ?

I feel like you have missed the point. The fact that I disagree that what he said was offensive is of no consequence. We can agree to disagree over that. However, apart from being short of time, you have not explained why you think it okay to not explain yourself. Why you think pulling a thread without due respect to the author is okay. Why you don't want to clarify what you find offensive.

kepp


Willem

Keppet
If you continue to misunderstanding what I say, and continue to say illogical things it is meaningless to debate with you
the one having no respect is you here because you keep saying things that are not truthfull.
You seem to have a grudge against me (from the past i guess)
I will end this discussion.
no need to answer anymore
w


Obviously I stopped ezmailing. It was making my life pretty hard and there was no point in continuing.